Overrated Movies

Off-topic discussion forum. Talk about movies, contemporary animation, and other non-classic cartoon topics with fellow GAC members here.
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Paulie J. Waddle
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Postby Paulie J. Waddle » Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:52 pm

FleischerFan wrote:Paulie:

No one forces anyone to buy merchandise.

I can tell you from having raised a daughter during the Little Mermaid to Lion King years, that her Christmas/Birthday wish list was always filled with tons of Disney merchandise.

As a parent, you want your kid happy - so for awhile, we were up to armpits in Little Mermaid dolls (because the really good outfits also came with a whole other Mermaid doll).

A small price to pay. Now that my daughter is grown (22 years old), we will still occasionally watch Little Mermaid as a daddy-daughter thing.


Oh, I didn't mean to offend anybody, FleishcerFan...
Take that, Phineas and Ferb Wiki!

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FleischerFan
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Postby FleischerFan » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:33 am

Not offended.

But I do sit here typing this response in a room in my house that is filled with cartoon merchandise of all types (especially a lot of Betty Boop, Disney, Popeye, & Marvel Comics merchandise).
"To speak without thinking like shooting without aiming." - The Hon. Charles Chan, American Law Enforcement Figure & Philosopher

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MarioSonic94
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Postby MarioSonic94 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:00 pm

Top Gun- Nothing more than a 2 hour recruitment ad for the Air Force

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Ben-the-looney
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Postby Ben-the-looney » Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:16 pm

Some Like It Hot: I admit, it's funnier then the comedies we have know, but I just don't agree with calling this the funniest movie ever. The pacing is slow, there's not that much jokes, and Marylin Monroe is not that good at acting.

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FleischerFan
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Postby FleischerFan » Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:17 pm

Ben, I could not disagree with you more strongly.

Yes, the pacing is slower. The pacing of ALL movies was slower then. Because of TV commercials, we have become attention deficit freaks who need rapid fire cuts to hold our interest now. That is not a flaw of the film, it is simply the result of changing times.

However, as you mention, the film is funnier than most films we have now. And that's the primary job of a comedy - to be funny. It also created characters you really cared about and rooted for.

Funny can be more than simply set-up and punchline. Seeing Jack Lemon dancing with a rose between his teeth while dressed in drag is funny. Watching Tony Curtis try to pretend that Marilyn Monroe is not arousing him on the yacht is funny. Joe E. Brown's last line is positively the funniest last line I have ever heard at the movies.

As for Monroe. It is true that she had extreme problems during the filming of this movie, but a lack of acting ability was not one of them. Having watched all of her movies, I can tell you that she demonstrated more than once that she was actually a very good actress. It's just that Hollywood very seldom gave her parts outside the "sex kitten" stereotype.

In Niagra, for example, she plays a young bride out to murder her husband. She turns in very sensitive performances in both Bus Stop and The Misfits. She studied under Lee Strasberg, perhaps the foremost acting teacher of his generation. He thought she was an exceptionally gifted actress.

In Some Like It Hot, she is playing a not very bright, confused, but sweet young singer. What specifically do you think was "not that good" about her performance?


ETA: The distinction for this film (being voted on by members of the AFI) was that is was the BEST comedy - not necessarily the funniest. There are many elements that make up a successful film. Some Like It Hot had a great script, superb direction, solid cast, told a terrific story, had well-developed characters you rooted for, and came to a very satisfying conclusion.
"To speak without thinking like shooting without aiming." - The Hon. Charles Chan, American Law Enforcement Figure & Philosopher

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Thad
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Postby Thad » Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:34 pm

FleischerFan wrote:Ben, I could not disagree with you more strongly.

Yes, the pacing is slower. The pacing of ALL movies was slower then. Because of TV commercials, we have become attention deficit freaks who need rapid fire cuts to hold our interest now. That is not a flaw of the film, it is simply the result of changing times.

However, as you mention, the film is funnier than most films we have now. And that's the primary job of a comedy - to be funny. It also created characters you really cared about and rooted for.

Funny can be more than simply set-up and punchline. Seeing Jack Lemon dancing with a rose between his teeth while dressed in drag is funny. Watching Tony Curtis try to pretend that Marilyn Monroe is not arousing him on the yacht is funny. Joe E. Brown's last line is positively the funniest last line I have ever heard at the movies.

As for Monroe. It is true that she had extreme problems during the filming of this movie, but a lack of acting ability was not one of them. Having watched all of her movies, I can tell you that she demonstrated more than once that she was actually a very good actress. It's just that Hollywood very seldom gave her parts outside the "sex kitten" stereotype.

In Niagra, for example, she plays a young bride out to murder her husband. She turns in very sensitive performances in both Bus Stop and The Misfits. She studied under Lee Strasberg, perhaps the foremost acting teacher of his generation. He thought she was an exceptionally gifted actress.

In Some Like It Hot, she is playing a not very bright, confused, but sweet young singer. What specifically do you think was "not that good" about her performance?


ETA: The distinction for this film (being voted on by members of the AFI) was that is was the BEST comedy - not necessarily the funniest. There are many elements that make up a successful film. Some Like It Hot had a great script, superb direction, solid cast, told a terrific story, had well-developed characters you rooted for, and came to a very satisfying conclusion.


I agree with most of this. BUT - the movie is a tad overlong. Wilder moves it along as good as one could hope for here in spite of some meandering, corny dialog scenes (on the train, at the beach, when the mobsters finally show up); it sort of works well here, but his lack of self-editing bit him in the ass later with Irma La Douce, Kiss Me, Stupid, and Avanti.

I am not a fan of Some Like It Hot's cinematography at all, particularly the lighting which is downright bad sometimes. The profusion of color photos from the movie recently only makes me wish the thing was shot in color. (Don't get me started on the "but the tests made their faces look garish" reasoning - it probably would have enhanced the farcical element. Color or black/white, nothing changes. Lemmon in drag I might accidentally bang drunk, whereas nothing but blindness could convince you Curtis doesn't have a dick.)

Though Monroe was funnier elsewhere (namely Gentlemen Prefer Blondes and How to Marry a Millionaire), she's still a dynamite comedienne in this one. She's very underrated in this respect, being one of the few actresses that can bring down the house like any male comedian can (the other obvious one being Lucille Ball).

In spite of these caveats, it's probably still somewhere in the top five or six comedies ever made.

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Ben-the-looney
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Postby Ben-the-looney » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:06 am

FleischerFan wrote:Ben, I could not disagree with you more strongly.

Yes, the pacing is slower. The pacing of ALL movies was slower then. Because of TV commercials, we have become attention deficit freaks who need rapid fire cuts to hold our interest now. That is not a flaw of the film, it is simply the result of changing times.

However, as you mention, the film is funnier than most films we have now. And that's the primary job of a comedy - to be funny. It also created characters you really cared about and rooted for.

Funny can be more than simply set-up and punchline. Seeing Jack Lemon dancing with a rose between his teeth while dressed in drag is funny. Watching Tony Curtis try to pretend that Marilyn Monroe is not arousing him on the yacht is funny. Joe E. Brown's last line is positively the funniest last line I have ever heard at the movies.

As for Monroe. It is true that she had extreme problems during the filming of this movie, but a lack of acting ability was not one of them. Having watched all of her movies, I can tell you that she demonstrated more than once that she was actually a very good actress. It's just that Hollywood very seldom gave her parts outside the "sex kitten" stereotype.

In Niagra, for example, she plays a young bride out to murder her husband. She turns in very sensitive performances in both Bus Stop and The Misfits. She studied under Lee Strasberg, perhaps the foremost acting teacher of his generation. He thought she was an exceptionally gifted actress.

In Some Like It Hot, she is playing a not very bright, confused, but sweet young singer. What specifically do you think was "not that good" about her performance?


ETA: The distinction for this film (being voted on by members of the AFI) was that is was the BEST comedy - not necessarily the funniest. There are many elements that make up a successful film. Some Like It Hot had a great script, superb direction, solid cast, told a terrific story, had well-developed characters you rooted for, and came to a very satisfying conclusion.


I do like the movie, and I laughed at some of the scenes you mentioned. But, I was raised on comedies like the Marx Brothers, and The Three Stooges, and I'm used to madcap comedies. So, when I read that this movie was voted the best comedy ever, I had to check it out. After watching it, I had the exact same disappointment I had when I watched "Citizen Kane." I was just turned off by the movies way of comedy, and I myself don't find crossdressing to be too funny, but that's just me.

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FleischerFan
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Postby FleischerFan » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:23 am

Thad wrote:...his lack of self-editing bit him in the ass later with Irma La Douce, Kiss Me, Stupid, and Avanti.
We agree here.

Although having recently seen a feature on Wilder's original vision for The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes convinced me that there was a feature where the opposite was in effect. Had the film not been cut down, it would have been a much more satisfying experience.


Ben-the-looney wrote: I was raised on comedies like the Marx Brothers, and The Three Stooges, and I'm used to madcap comedies. So, when I read that this movie was voted the best comedy ever, I had to check it out. After watching it, I had the exact same disappointment I had when I watched "Citizen Kane."
Again, I think the distinction here is between "funniest" and "best."

For me, there are no funnier screen comedians than the Marx Brothers and Duck Soup remains the "Funniest" film ever - for me. But the characters and situations are so artificial that it doesn't engage me on a personal level. Some Like It Hot engaged me on a personal level and I think it's funny. So I really can't quarrel too much with its distinction as "Best" comedy.

Disagree with you about Citizen Kane. It absolutely blew me away when I first saw it (during my highs school years). Having studied it and read about it and the innovations it ushered in has only enhanced the film for me. I watch it about once every two years and always enjoy it.
"To speak without thinking like shooting without aiming." - The Hon. Charles Chan, American Law Enforcement Figure & Philosopher

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zavkram
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Postby zavkram » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:34 am

I thought "Some Like It Hot" was OK, but just OK... I agree with Thad the the film is a bit too long.

This is probably the only Billy Wilder film, out of the ones that I've seen, that I can tolerate.

I had posted earlier about my disdain for his later film (which also starred Jack Lemmon), "The Fortune Cookie"; because of its interminable length, uninteresting and often vulgar characters (particularly Walter Matthau's shyster lawyer), weak story, painfully-slow pacing, and heavy-handed music score which does nothing whatsoever to enhance the plodding on-screen action.

Most of Alfred Hitchcock's films I find to be flawed in one way or another. There are only two that I actually enjoy watching again and again: The first is "Rope" and the second is "North by Northwest".

"Rear Window" comes in third, but I have a hard time sitting through some of the lame, even cliched, plot elements of the original story; such as the scene in which "Miss Lonelyhearts" puts off killing herself because she's entranced by the melody coming from the composer's apartment upstairs.
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zavkram
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Postby zavkram » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:48 am

FleischerFan wrote:The pacing of ALL movies was slower then. Because of TV commercials, we have become attention deficit freaks who need rapid fire cuts to hold our interest now. That is not a flaw of the film, it is simply the result of changing times...


How true... most young adults these days have shorter attention spans and can't sit through any film unless there's an explosion, gratuitous sex scene, murder, or car chase happening every 15 minutes. The films today that contain these elements in excess, often at the expense of a coherent narrative; these are the films that I personally find to be flawed.
This post is brought to you by "Raisin d'etre", the delicious, high-fiber breakfast cereal for existentialists.


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