Underrated Movies

Off-topic discussion forum. Talk about movies, contemporary animation, and other non-classic cartoon topics with fellow GAC members here.
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FleischerFan
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Postby FleischerFan » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:11 am

Paulie J. Waddle wrote:Any of Disney's "package" films like The Three Caballeros, Make Mine Music, Melody Time, etc. Why censor them if no one's watching? :confused:
Paulie:

There are lots of people who have purchased and watched those films. The package features are the titles that stay in constant release by Disney as opposed to going in and out of "the vault." You can also find them at lower prices.

My guess is that a lot of parents buy them as electronic babysitters because of the Disney name. As the majority of those purchasers are not animation buffs, it makes sense for Disney to avoid any negative publicity by making those alterations in the film.

BTW - just a technical point - but what Disney has done is not "censorship." Censorship is when an outside person or agency forces change on someone else's creative content. As owners of the film, Disney is free to make any changes they want.

Nobody called it "censorship" when George Lucas made substantial changes to his original Star Wars films. :tweety:
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J. J. Hunsecker
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Postby J. J. Hunsecker » Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:44 pm

FleischerFan wrote:BTW - just a technical point - but what Disney has done is not "censorship." Censorship is when an outside person or agency forces change on someone else's creative content. As owners of the film, Disney is free to make any changes they want.

Nobody called it "censorship" when George Lucas made substantial changes to his original Star Wars films. :tweety:

Well, Lucas didn't delete or edit out any scenes from his new versions of the original Star Wars trilogy. He added scenes, as well as CGI effects. The movies are altered, not censored. However, for those who wanted to own the original 1977 version on home video, there isn't much choice -- only a non-anamorphic scratched print on one of the DVD sets, or the old laserdisc set. So the movie hasn't been censored, just mutilated beyond recognition (kidding).

I think things are a little different with Disney, too. The edited changes to the compilation films were made by executives who had nothing to do with the creation of Disney's original cartoons. They were "outsiders" chosen to run the studio by the stockholders. They made decisions that Walt or Roy Disney, the people who created the studio, probably would never have agreed with. Walt Disney altering The Three Little Pigs is one thing -- he produced it after all -- but Michael Eisner making those choices seems a different matter to me. He had no knowledge or love for those cartoons.

I don't know that I would call what Eisner and company did as censorship, but there also seems to be an attitude that these studios are a monolithic enterprise, and that the choices made within are agreed upon by everyone involved. During Eisner's reign the studio was very conscious of being "politically correct" and keeping some of its product from release on home video, while others were issued in an edited format. I don't think Roy Disney, Jr. agreed with some of these decisions, but he didn't have the power to do anything about it at the time.
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Bugsy-Kun
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Postby Bugsy-Kun » Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:54 pm

I don't think it was already mentionned but i want to add Doctor Detroit which is a movie i discover currently and then, enjoy it. A very original plot for the 80's created for rise of good comedy we seen too rarely in today's movies.

Like Brandon says, i will add the post-Sellers Pink Panther movies. "Trail" is probably the most vulgar of the series but have their moments and "Curse" is actually a very watchable film. Most better than the Martin's Pink Panther reboots which give nothing to the originals.

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FleischerFan
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Postby FleischerFan » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:25 am

J. J. Hunsecker wrote:Well, Lucas didn't delete or edit out any scenes from his new versions of the original Star Wars trilogy. He added scenes, as well as CGI effects. The movies are altered, not censored.
I think changing the cantina scene so that Hans Solo now shoots in self-defense is tip-toeing pretty close to the same kind of PC changes mandated at Disney.:tweety:


J. J. Hunsecker wrote:I think things are a little different with Disney, too. The edited changes to the compilation films were made by executives who had nothing to do with the creation of Disney's original cartoons. They were "outsiders" chosen to run the studio by the stockholders.
The decision to go public as a company was made by Walt & Roy, so they accepted all the consequences that go with becoming a public corporation.

I don't consider anyone employed in the company to be an "outsider" any more than I would consider myself an "outsider" at the various companies that have employed me through the years.

J. J. Hunsecker wrote:They made decisions that Walt or Roy Disney, the people who created the studio, probably would never have agreed with.
That is a huge supposition. Walt always had great concern for the mainstream American audience. In my opinion, he would have no problem with those changes, but neither of us can really know for certain.


J. J. Hunsecker wrote: Walt Disney altering The Three Little Pigs is one thing -- he produced it after all -- but Michael Eisner making those choices seems a different matter to me. He had no knowledge or love for those cartoons.
Again, this is another supposition. I know it's vogue now to criticize Eisner, but I also remember what bad shape Disney was in before he took over. Eisner brought in Frank Wells & Jeffrey Katzenberg who are credited with turning the company around. The renaissance of Disney animation that began with The Little Mermaid began under Eisner's watch.


J. J. Hunsecker wrote: During Eisner's reign the studio was very conscious of being "politically correct" and keeping some of its product from release on home video, while others were issued in an edited format.
IMO, the Disney Studio has ALWAYS been concerned with being "PC." It's just that our notin of what is "PC" has changed through the years.

When "The Three Little Pigs" was made, a negative Jewish stereotype was not considered "un-PC" (so also for many racial & ethnic sterotypes). As mainstream tastes changed, Disney changed to conform to those changes.

Remember Walt was the guy who instituted the "no mustache or beard" rule for employees at Disneyland (when he himself had a mustache!) because he feared his mainstream audience associated such facial hair with "hippies."

Eisner is long gone and we still have such digital alterations and no Song of the South release, so to me, being PC is, was, and always has been a part of the Disney Company's policies.
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sumnernor
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Postby sumnernor » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:01 am

I've been meaning to post for sometime. Very much underrated js Sergei Bondarchuck' s Tolstoy' Wae and Peace - all 6 0r 7 hours of it. It won the Oscar for the best foreign film.

Other films by Bergman such as “The Seventh Seal”.

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Paulie J. Waddle
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Postby Paulie J. Waddle » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:06 am

^That's funny you mention The Seventh Seal. My aunt just ordered me a book on the Fifties, and I had only heard about that film from a parody in a Looney Tunes comic. I watched quite a bit of it on YouTube and I would have to agree.
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tristar
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Postby tristar » Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:54 pm

sumnernor wrote:Other films by Bergman such as “The Seventh Seal”.
Ingmar Bergman's films, especially The Seventh Seal, have been universally praised for over half a century. How do they qualify as being underrated?

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sumnernor
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Postby sumnernor » Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:19 pm

tristar wrote:Ingmar Bergman's films, especially The Seventh Seal, have been universally praised for over half a century. How do they qualify as being underrated?


Considering other choices in this thread - what is over-rated, what is under rated. Bergman's films appear not to be mentioned too much - hence "under-rated". I get the impression many people do not know about him - they should.

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Paulie J. Waddle
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Postby Paulie J. Waddle » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:02 am

The Day The Earth Stood Still- Klaatu. Barada. Nicto.
Take that, Phineas and Ferb Wiki!

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Ben-the-looney
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Postby Ben-the-looney » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:12 pm

Jason and the Argonauts: Influenced several modern day fantasy films. Tom Hanks later went on saying he thinks it's the greatest movie of all time.


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