Manny Perez: When Was He Born, and When Did He Die?

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Speedy Boris
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Postby Speedy Boris » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:45 am

On the same topic, why did Ken Champin not return after the '53 shutdown? Was he laid off, or did he quit, or...?

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Champin at the bits... ;o)

Postby Sogturtle » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:04 pm

Speedy Boris wrote:On the same topic, why did Ken Champin not return after the '53 shutdown? Was he laid off, or did he quit, or...?


Speedy Boris~

You can ask the same question about a number of former-Warner animators from that same moment in time. Amongst them folks like Rod Scribner, Phil DeLara, Charles McKimson, Ken Champin, , or even fine assistants like Frank Braxton (the first African-American animator).

In almost every case they'd simply gotten fully esconced in a new job in a different studio OR outside the animation industry (DeLara).

I would think that Union rules would've mandated that they all be invited back after the layoff of '53 was over... If that indeed was the case then Champin likely got the invite to return but turned it down due to his new job circumstance...

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Postby zavkram » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:43 pm

Sogturtle wrote:Zavkam~

According to animator Greg Duffell, Manuel Perez told him (ca 1978) that he eventually got to hating
Freleng.

I don't doubt Duffell's memory, but the conversation raises serious questions.... Perez was a FULL animator for Freleng for a minimum of 14 years (1939-1953, Friz's return and then up to the Warner temporary closure). And then he returned to Friz's employ at DePatie-Freleng from (at least) 1965 to 1971.
I find it nearly incomprehensible that anybody could actually work for someone for 14 years if they had come to "hate" them... Then return for another 6 years to the guy's own studio...:confused:

It has to be understood that throughout the Forties that Manuel Perez COULD have found work at any number of the Hollywood studios, so he was NOT on a ball and chain at Warners to Friz...

Or maybe the "hating" didn't begin till near the end of his Warner employment in '53?? OR perhaps even when Perez was at DePatie-Freleng? [It is a fact that in the '70's that Manny went to working first for Bakshi and then repeatedly for Chuck Jones].


Thanks for the info, Sogturtle and Fibber, that certainly is enlightening... from having read various books and articles about the Schlesinger/WB Studio, I had learned that Freleng could be cantankerous; but I had never before read any accounts of him being a real SOB to his staff.

Unfortunately, Virgil Ross is no longer with us, so there would be no new information ever forthcoming from him. Are Gerry Chinquy and Carlos Manriquez still around? I wonder if they had maintained any kind of friendship with Perez; either while they were all at Warner Bros or in the years thereafter.
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Speedy Boris
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Postby Speedy Boris » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:46 pm

zavkram wrote:Thanks for the info, Sogturtle and Fibber, that certainly is enlightening... from having read various books and articles about the Schlesinger/WB Studio, I had learned that Freleng could be cantankerous; but I had never before read any accounts of him being a real SOB to his staff.

Unfortunately, Virgil Ross is no longer with us, so there would be no new information ever forthcoming from him. Are Gerry Chinquy and Carlos Manquirez still around? I wonder if they had maintained any kind of friendship with Perez; either while they were all at Warner Bros or in the years thereafter.
Chiniquy died in 1989. No idea about Manriquez, but being that he has credits going as far back as 1930, it's a pretty safe bet that he's dead too.

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Postby Fibber Fox » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:28 pm

Sogturtle wrote:I don't doubt Duffell's memory, but the conversation raises serious questions.... Perez was a FULL animator for Freleng for a minimum of 14 years (1939-1953, Friz's return and then up to the Warner temporary closure). And then he returned to Friz's employ at DePatie-Freleng from (at least) 1965 to 1971.
I find it nearly incomprehensible that anybody could actually work for someone for 14 years if they had come to "hate" them... Then return for another 6 years to the guy's own studio...


Have you ever been unemployed with a family to support? You learn to put your personal feelings aside and suck it up to put food on the table.

As for his arrival at DFE, I suspect Hawley Pratt was playing more of a role in the films than Freleng, who would have had executive management things to take care of.

None of this, of course, solves the mystery of whatever happened to him.

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Postby Fibber Fox » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:37 pm

Speedy Boris wrote:Chiniquy died in 1989. No idea about Manriquez, but being that he has credits going as far back as 1930, it's a pretty safe bet that he's dead too.


Hans Perk's site says he died in May 1981.

Marcellite Garner told Don Peri in his book that Manriquez suggested her to join him at Disney and that was in late 1929. Mike Barrier gives the same year.

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Postby Sogturtle » Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:50 am

Fibber Fox wrote:Have you ever been unemployed with a family to support? You learn to put your personal feelings aside and suck it up to put food on the table.

As for his arrival at DFE, I suspect Hawley Pratt was playing more of a role in the films than Freleng, who would have had executive management things to take care of.

None of this, of course, solves the mystery of whatever happened to him.

F. Fox


Fibber~

Well, the concept of just having to "suck it up" to earn some kind of living would much more closely fit someone like Dave Hoffman than Manuel Perez.
As a long-term full-animator for someone of Freleng's stature, Manny literally would've had his pick at any number of cartoon studios, especially in the Forties, yet he voluntarily stayed at Warners. During those years it was not at all uncommon for animators to leap from one studio to another... and then sometimes back to their original one!:)

As for Manny's years at DFE, actually his early years were spent largely animating for Bob McKimson with something like seven for Freleng himself (all in the first year)... So he had intense direct contact with Friz on those, this was before Hawley was promoted to director... Then after Friz's retirement from the director's chair Manny labored under Chiniquy and Pratt (generally speaking). But Pratt and Chiniquy were Friz's right-hand men so toiling for them logically would've brought back all the memories of Friz...

Then in his latter days at DFE he got to animate for Art Davis, so I'm sure that was something like his animating for Bob McKimosn, i.e. working for someone from the grand Warner days who was NOT one of the Friz inner-circle...

And come to think of it, Manny was one of the extremely few guys who ever got to animate for Chuck Jones, Bob McKimson, Art Davis, and Friz Freleng!!!:cool: Now I have to wonder if he ever animated UNcredited for Tex Avery...:D


Oh! And I checked back on [color=Red]Ken Champin, I'd forgotten that during the Warner closure he went to work for onetime-Schlesinger-colleague Ray Patin... and stayed there for YEARS!! Later he reportedly went to Filmfare.
I wouldn't be surprised if former Warner co-worker Manny Perez wasn't at the same places... Anybody have Ray Patin's records?
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Postby Jack G. » Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:48 am

That's a lotta info Mr Turtle - and a lot of work!
I do appreciate reading this info and definately missed it when you went into hibernation.

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Postby Sogturtle » Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:48 am

Jack G. wrote:That's a lotta info Mr Turtle - and a lot of work!
I do appreciate reading this info and definately missed it when you went into hibernation.


Jack G.~

I'm glad to hear you read it and appreciated it!:cool: And hey, sometimes it's just necessary that we turtles hibernate in our shells for a while!:D

Now on to this...

Speedy Boris wrote:Didn't Bakshi and his team have to add a bunch of new animated footage to the movie before it was accepted, though (as it was previously a mix of live action and animation, and the studio didn't like that)? That's my understanding of the situation. Perhaps Perez did some of the later work on it.


Speedy Boris~

Since "Hey Good Lookin" and it's massive stay "on the shelf" has been brought up then I'll relate a couple things I found in the animators union newsletter...

The Peg-Board July 1976 Vol. 7 no. 5 p.1
[color=Black]"Ralph Bakshi.... This studio [color=Red]still [/color]
[my emphasis]awaits the release of Hey, Good Lookin'"

Okay so there we clearly show that the film was completed and AWAITING release evidently long before July 1976....

The Peg-Board Jan. 1977 Vol. 8 no. 1 p.4
"Bakshi Finds Solace from 'Coonskin' And 'Good Lookin'' Wounds in Fantasy Material"
"After he made "Coonskin," animator Ralph Bakshi was attacked by black activists and Paramount Pictures dumped the film. Then the film he was finishing "Hey Good Lookin'," was held up by Warner Brothers because it also dealt with touchy [color=Red]racial
subject matter. It still hasn't been released.
[/color]
....
"Hopeful that "Hey Good Lookin'" will see the light of day, Bakshi says WB has told him it plans summer release for the pic..."

"A studio spokesman, however, says release plans still aren't definite. Pic has a [color=Red]black gang
fighting a white gang, and as Baskshi admits, "Warners freaked -- they thought they would have the same problems I had with 'Coonskin'". [my emphasis]
[reprinted by Peg-Board from Daily Variety]

Alright, so the stated reasons waaaay back then by both Bakshi and Warner Bros. for the massive delay in release appear to have had nothing to do with animation vs. live content, and EVERYTHING to do with SOME of the subject matter!

Don't know if the climactic racial gang-fight was altered any but from the sound of it I have my doubts... Warners thus kept "Hey Good Lookin'" in the can for at least six YEARS (and I think a little longer from what I recall from reports back then).

Thought I remembered one article mentioning Warners being upset by the language as well, but not finding it right now so maybe I imagined it.:o [Whereas "Coonskin" had EXTREME profane language problems with African-Americans who saw it, found an article detailing the immensely STRONG objections to repeated use of the "f-bomb" and "m-f" in it].
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Speedy Boris
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Postby Speedy Boris » Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:31 am

Sogturtle wrote:Speedy Boris~

Since "Hey Good Lookin" and it's massive stay "on the shelf" has been brought up then I'll relate a couple things I found in the animators union newsletter...

The Peg-Board July 1976 Vol. 7 no. 5 p.1
[color=black]"Ralph Bakshi.... This studio [color=red]still [/color][my emphasis]awaits the release of Hey, Good Lookin'"

Okay so there we clearly show that the film was completed and AWAITING release evidently long before July 1976....

The Peg-Board Jan. 1977 Vol. 8 no. 1 p.4
"Bakshi Finds Solace from 'Coonskin' And 'Good Lookin'' Wounds in Fantasy Material"
"After he made "Coonskin," animator Ralph Bakshi was attacked by black activists and Paramount Pictures dumped the film. Then the film he was finishing "Hey Good Lookin'," was held up by Warner Brothers because it also dealt with touchy [color=red]racial subject matter. It still hasn't been released.[/color]
....
"Hopeful that "Hey Good Lookin'" will see the light of day, Bakshi says WB has told him it plans summer release for the pic..."

"A studio spokesman, however, says release plans still aren't definite. Pic has a [color=red]black gang fighting a white gang, and as Baskshi admits, "Warners freaked -- they thought they would have the same problems I had with 'Coonskin'". [my emphasis][/color]
[reprinted by Peg-Board from Daily Variety]

[color=blue]Alright, so the stated reasons waaaay back then by both Bakshi and Warner Bros. for the massive delay in release appear to have had nothing to do with animation vs. live content, and EVERYTHING to do with SOME of the subject matter!

Don't know if the climactic racial gang-fight was altered any but from the sound of it I have my doubts... Warners thus kept "Hey Good Lookin'" in the can for at least six YEARS (and I think a little longer from what I recall from reports back then).

Thought I remembered one article mentioning Warners being upset by the language as well, but not finding it right now so maybe I imagined it.:o [Whereas "Coonskin" had EXTREME profane language problems with African-Americans who saw it, found an article detailing the immensely STRONG objections to repeated use of the "f-bomb" and "m-f" in it].
[/color][/color]
Well, according to Wikipedia's article on the film (and the info is sourced), the studio also had problems with the live action/animation mix, in addition to the so-called controversial content. So we may both be right.


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